Social Icons

twitterfacebookgoogle pluslinkedinrss feedemail

Pages

Hockey Challenge 2014

Recent Articles

2.27.2013

Just a quick word about "Dump and Chase"

Tbirds fall to the Oil Kings last night 6-2. Seattle managed to mostly stay out of penalty trouble but Edmonton still managed to take advantage and go 3-3 on the PP.

Edmonton was just too tough for this team. Our talent level is just so far behind a team like Edmonton... I don't know what to say.

I want to take a moment to conduct a quick lecture on dumping the puck into the zone.

For several years there has been a common complaint that Seattle has a "system" of dumping and chasing the puck into the zone. It started years ago when Rob Sumner was Coach and now I've been hearing lately that the team plays the same "system" under Steve Konowalchuk.

Obviously, the team has gone through various levels of frustration over the past 10 years and has reached a crescendo over the past 4 seasons. With these frustrations, fans tend to over analyze things in an effort to explain what is wrong and explain why the team is bad. This is human nature... I don't blame anyone for doing or thinking that.

Fans have then tried to explain things away by saying that this "system" of dump and chase has to get thrown out and that somehow it is a coaching problem that plagues this team and franchise. But... here's the thing.

1) A certain amount of "dump and chase" is always going to be around in hockey. It's just smart hockey. You want to force the other team's defenders into spending energy chasing the puck back into their zone and facilitate the attacking team's forecheck while the other team has their back turned to chase the puck. If you watch other teams play against the Tbirds, they do plenty of dumping and chasing. But this isn't the primary point... the primary complaint is that we do this more than other teams.

Which brings me to...

2) Do the Tbirds dump and chase more than other teams? Guess what? They probably do. Is it a "coaching system" that causes this. Hell no... and here's why.  Anyone who has played hockey and specifically anyone who has played hockey against players that are much better skaters (or faster skaters) than them knows that dumping and chasing often occurs because the puck carrier doesn't have the requisite speed to threaten the defender around the edge without dumping and chasing.

This isn't a system problem. This is once again a talent problem.  We aren't fast. We don't have fast skaters and I was reminded of this last night watching Edmonton. You know why Edmonton doesn't dump and chase as much? They don't have to!! They were able to generate plenty of speed through the neutral zone with multiple passing options that also have speed! That allows them to make a pass, with speed, and beat or threaten the defender to the outside and open things up without having to dump and chase.

This is a talent issue (again) not a system problem. If you asked Konowalchuk I guarantee you he wouldn't prefer the dump and chase. I guarantee you that the dump in chase is simply the best option when you don't have enough skating ability to threaten defenders.


34 comments :

Anonymous said...

Good points, Tyler. Explains a lot about why this team and my ECHL dumps the puck more than I like.

So I have to ask...when will Russ expand the talent of this team from our current level to the next level. As you stated, this has been a problem for four to ten years. Look back upon when Russ took over the organization and that would be...almost 10 years ago? In conclusion, Russ is the problem. As a owner, he saved this team in our town, but as a GM he is killing it.

My only question is..how does Russ expect hockey fans on a budget to continue to support his organization when he doesn't produce a quality team? Am I wrong in questioning his logic when Russ expects people to pay $25 per ticket to see a team that can't compete due to talent?

This is maddening...I, as do my kids, love the T-Birds but I refuse so support them, aka the organization, when the organization is not open to bringing talented individuals to the team. Guess that leaves an open seat for some other fan. There loss. We all hate to see the home losses...going on five years and we, the family, have seen two or three wins, one win was when I took a friend to the game...that's over 20+ games.

Sorry..breaking your "bitching" rule but Russ needs to go. This team is just terrible and I don't see them improving. Russ has no business, besides bankrolling the a team, in the GM business. Get a real GM in the organization and we may be good in 3-5 years.

Enough is enough...the coach is not the problem. It's the GM. Time to find a solution...Yes, Russ is not going anywhere but it doesn't hurt in pointing out that HE IS THE PROBLEM once in a while.

Anonymous said...

I agree. Ok, so you win two Memorial Cups with players someone else probably helped find, basically kept the same players for two years, had two great teams with two (different) great coaches (Maxwell for one). Ever think someone else had a lot to do with winning those cups?

Maybe if the GM is replaced by someone else and the team starts winning, this might make someone conclude they were the problem after all.

In my opinion, making the playoffs is nice but winning the Memorial Cup is the only thing that really matters. (lived in a city that has won two and it is great!)

Anonymous said...

Dear whiners,

If you really want a change pool your money and buy the team. It can't be that much.

Anonymous said...

Winning the Memorial Cup in Seattle would be especially important because of the market. Currently, we have ourselves a perception problem. The top draft picks aren't signing here, and no matter what anyone says, I say they aren't coming until the day I'm proven wrong. For the Seattle franchise to win it all could turn our market from an undesireable place for players to commit to and turn it into a US Division hotspot, especially given the size of the market. Russ has the luxury of working with one of the largest demographics with the WHL, but he hasn't been able to begin to tap the resources due to his own shortcomings and inabilities as a GM. Raising the prices, showing disinterest in growing a fanbase and coming off as an overall jerk in general doesn't help his cause either. We're a long ways from seeing this dream come true.

Anonymous said...

@9:32 Interesting point. I have wondered on several occasions if there is a possiblity that a small, local Kent-based ownership group could be pieced together to make an offer to buy the franchise. ShoWare is a $95 million arena, an additional $8 million or so investment to tie it all together buy the franchise would be golden. Then hire a GM and most importantly, remove the stigma that only Canadians know how to operate a franchise.

Anonymous said...

reply to 9:32.

Believe it or not it is still ok to have an opinion in this country. Even in the Socialist Republic of Washington

Mr Tell13 said...

Great post Tyler,
You touch on a bunch of things that I agree with. I do think you paint a with quite a wide brush about the lack of talent. You can see that some guys on the team that are (or were) more prone to carry the puck in. (thinking of Delnov, Sheen etc.)
As much as I agree that the team lacks speed (and has been for a few years), I can't see that uniquely fall down on talent. To me that is much more related to training and work off ice. I do see a lot more time where guys could shoot and prefer to pass. I don't know what you think but I think the are lacking some confidence at this point.

Anonymous said...

@Mr Tell

I totally agree with you with this. The emphasis for this team seems to be to get a good shot on goal. However, you can't score if you don't shoot. The games this year that I witnessed, limited as they are, the T-bird players seem reluctant so shoot the puck. Limiting shots isn't working so maybe they should throw everything, including the kitchen sink, at the opposing goaltender. Just a thought.

Anonymous said...

Back up goalies the last 2 years is a whopping combined 1 win 20 losses. WOW. Where are the good young goalies I saw in camp.

Anonymous said...

We didn't get to see enough of Justin Myles, who was to be our #1 backup in net this season. His injury changed the course of the season and Mumaugh got thrown in very early in his career. We will see what they have come next season.

Marc S said...

Sounded like a very solid game by the T-birds tonight. It is good to see them pick up 2 points on the road, hopefully they can keep it up tomorrow night at home. :)

Anonymous said...

off topic a bit here but I just wanted to say... imagine the point total Theo would be getting if he actually had some skilled forwards to play with??? Unreal vision on the kid and impressive points with this team this year

Anonymous said...

Great PK last night, the 2 points were huge now lets carry it home for 2 more tonight. Our PP is gone right now, anyone know where it has gone?

Mr Tell13 said...

@anon 11:22

Yeah, I mean having guys like Delnov and Lipsberg (both in the top 6 rookies) with Sheen, Honey and a worker like Swenson (i'll leave out Troock ...for injuries)
that's nothing.

Anonymous said...

Now imagine if Theodore made better decisions on defense that is what he needs to focus on he obviously has tools to be a offensive weapon yet he remains a defensive liability. I actually like how smith has developed the most of the young dmen

Anonymous said...

Agree, Smith is the better of the young d-men with his overall game. He just doesn't have the same high ceiling as Theodore. Smith is the kind of player who will keep getting better and be a rock solid, reliable 20 yr old on the back end that will help you win for 3-4 seasons. You need guys like Smith on your team if you want to be a consistent winner.
Tyler, any truth to the rumor that Barzal and Austin Douglas recently practiced with the team? Someone told me that was the case but I don't know how reliable they are.

Marc S said...

I think overall the defense has come a long way this year.

I thought the team played pretty well tonight, it looked like Tri-City had a couple of gift goals tonight. I couldn't quite tell what happened on their first one, but it looked like the net was off the pegs and looked like Glover was pushed into the net, but I sit at the far end of the ice so maybe that is just how it looked through my blue and green tinted glassed. It also looked like Tri-City was offside on I think it was the 4th goal.

I thought Holub and Wray had some good energy early and put together a couple of nice shifts, but I don't remember seeing them on the ice much in the second and third periods.

I noticed that Tri-City really relies on the Feser line. It seemed like they were on the ice just about every other shift for them. I'd love it if the defense could shut down these one dimensional teams and make the other guys beat you.

They really need to get the PP going, 1 for 15 in 4 games this week. PK was pretty good, allowing 3 goals on 14 attempts against the first, second and third ranked PPs.

Hopefully they will have Honey back next week it is amazing the difference he makes when he is on the ice.

Any thoughts on whether they will bring Kolesar back up at the end of the season to play a few more games and have available during the playoffs or Bear? The D is looking a bit thin with Forsberg out (concussion I'm guessing) and Smith hurt his foot tonight, but he did return to the game.

Anonymous said...

Pretty sure Smith "hurt" his skate. Looked like he lost a blade.
Losing doesn't hurt as bad when they play the way they did. All I've wanted to see all season long, effort effort effort! Too bad the refs were morons. How do these guys get away with calling a game like that?
Clearly Portland is trying to arrange it so they play us in the playoffs by throwing a game in Everett. ;-)

Anonymous said...

I don't think Portland is trying to "arrange it" so they play us in the first round. I think they are trying to arrange it so they don't play PG in the first round! They don't want to have to make that bus trip up there for two games in the middle of the week. They want the short trip to Kent or Everett.
Actually Lotz made 43 saves last night for he 'Tips.

Anonymous said...

Officiating in this league has "always" been inconsistent.
Too bad there isn't a way to "weed out" the poor referee's.
There should be at least a way to allow the coach's to file a league complaint. (maybe there is)
Benbow?

Marc S said...

Next weekend will be huge for the T-birds. Gotta get 4 points, Everett had a really good weekend and tied them in points. Would it be too much to ask for them to win 2 road games in a row and beat Spokane on Wednesday? :)

Hopefully we will see #14 back on the ice next weekend.

Anonymous said...

as for the above statement, Austin Douglas was in Seattle recently for a bit and practiced yes. I am awaiting confirmation about Barzal though. Lets hope Barzal was... would be a VERY good sign

Anonymous said...

Barzal was as well...

Anonymous said...

I am not much of a Twitter user. Is anyone on Ryan Gropp's twitter account and is he putting any comments on there wether he is leaning tworads the WHL or NCAA? How is he doing in his league that he is in?

Anonymous said...

Use this link:
https://twitter.com/Gropper8

You don't need to be a Twitter user to read his tweets.. Depending how much or little you tend to read into things, there might be some discouraging stuff on there. On one tweet, he makes a point of congratulating Tanner Macmaster on committing to the college route.

Anonymous said...

He is still deciding. He has been doing pretty well this year in Penticton and has been offered scholorships already. I was wondering the same thing, why he hasn't signed a scholarship yet. But from what I have been told he is waiting until the season is over and making his decision then (also most likely waiting to see if Barzal signs before he signs in Seattle)

Anonymous said...

Not sure why everyone is linking Gropp and Barzal together. That was just some rumor spread by someone with no knowledge of the situation. Gropp is probably waiting for his advisors to tell him what the skinny is on his draft status in a couple of years. If they think he'll be a high pick in the NHL, he might be better served going the WHL route. If not he's going to college, either the Univ of Denver or Colorado College (where his dad played).

Anonymous said...

If I was Ryan Gropp, I'd be looking to play with Barzal if I could. Barzal is the type of guy who makes everyone around him look better. Anyone who saw Barzal in training camp would second that.

Anonymous said...

Don't read anything into his tweet congratulating his friend for going the college route. His friend did commit to Boston College after all.

Anonymous said...

we are linking gropp and barzal together cause gropp would be a fool not to want to play with Barzal. Barzal type players dont come around often and Gropp will hit the jackpot playing with him. Both are available for 2015 NHL draft (Gropp late birthday)

Marc S said...

Nice win tonight T-birds! Now to come home and take care of business this weekend against two teams they should beat.

Anonymous said...

Agreed Marc...but does anyone have any stats on how the T-Birds do against teams they are supposed to beat v. ones they aren't?

Marc S said...

Everett: 5-2-2-0
PG: 2-1-0-0
Vancouver: 2-1-1-0

A lot of the better teams it depends on if we played them at home or on the road, the T-birds didn't win many games in Canada this year and I think they only have one road win against Portland. They have a couple of road wins against Tri-city and Spokane, and have been fairly competitive on home ice against most of the teams.

I'm not really familiar with the teams in the east, and the T-birds only play them once anyway so there isn't much of a sample.


It sounds like their last three road games have been pretty good so hopefully they are peaking right before the playoffs and maybe they can surprise someone

Anonymous said...

Thanks Marc!

Was wondering about the record.


Are we seriously celebrating about making the playoffs with a losing record? What have we become! I'm sorry, but I expect my team to destroy the others by a large margin not back into the playoffs while having more losses than wins. Disguisting and the team should be ashamed. The WHL and CHL, Canadian Hockey League, shoud be on notice that as sub-par, under 500 team is making it into the play offs.

Seriously? I'm a T Bird fan. Teams with losing records, under five hundred, don't belong in chapiionship....

WHL Scoreboard